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Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:59 pm
by Wesley
nich wrote:
I disagree completely. Violence is at an all time high in United States. That's unacceptable. Yes there will always be killers but numbers do matter. The States should not just hand out guns to anyone.
You disagree that I shoot guns as a hobby? Or you disagree that all senseless death is bad?

In Harrisburg -- about 11 miles from where I type this -- a man was mugged on Sunday night. He was hit with a pipe, his pockets turned out. He died before the ambulance could show up. Now, would this have been more terrible if he had been shot?

Violence against each other is terrible, no matter the means. If we, as a society, can see each other as brothers and sisters, kindred spirits, teammates, instead of opponents or obstacles, then the violence we perpetrate against one another will go down, regardless of the method.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:03 pm
by Wesley
If I could push a button and all guns in the history of ever would vanish, including my own, I'd do it.

However, that is nonsense. Beretta has been making guns since the Napoleanic wars. Guns exist everywhere, not just the United States. Since we can't make guns vanish, and since without guns people could still poison, stab, or blow each other up, I vote we all be nicer to each other.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:12 pm
by nich
GreatZot wrote:
nich wrote:
I disagree completely. Violence is at an all time high in United States. That's unacceptable. Yes there will always be killers but numbers do matter. The States should not just hand out guns to anyone.
You disagree that I shoot guns as a hobby? Or you disagree that all senseless death is bad?

In Harrisburg -- about 11 miles from where I type this -- a man was mugged on Sunday night. He was hit with a pipe, his pockets turned out. He died before the ambulance could show up. Now, would this have been more terrible if he had been shot?

Violence against each other is terrible, no matter the means. If we, as a society, can see each other as brothers and sisters, kindred spirits, teammates, instead of opponents or obstacles, then the violence we perpetrate against one another will go down, regardless of the method.
I was disagreeing with how you said numbers don't matter. Yes any kind of violence is tragic. But it's happening all the time now. That's a serious issue and it needs to stop. Strict restriction on guns will solve that. That's like saying the holocaust was just as traumatic as a guy getting shot in the street.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:15 am
by Wesley
Now it is my turn to disagree. More on that later.

How do you propose to control guns more closely? Also, how do you feel about other kinds of violence?

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:28 am
by nich
Well obviously all violence is wrong but gun violence is the most prevalent.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 am
by Moe
GreatZot wrote:Now, would this have been more terrible if he had been shot?[/color]
I can't believe I am about to say this, but I almost think a gun would have been preferable.

I know the end result would be the same, but would you rather get hit and bleed out in pain, or shot and killed on the spot(or at least much quicker)?

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:52 pm
by Beany
While it is true that any murders are bad, the number of people killed in a knife attack in a club would be significantly lower, and even those with stab wounds may have survived. I know it's still devastating for the victims' families, but if the world can't be a perfect place where everyone gets along, is it not better to increase the chances of more people surviving?

On the topic of religion and how people use it to carry out murders, take a look at this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rvive.html. The article I was actually looking for was about a bomber whose vest didn't go off. He had been brought up to believe that what he was doing was right, and it was only afterwards, when he'd seen the other side of things, that he could understand what he had nearly done.

What rules do the US have on people with criminal records owning guns?

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:41 pm
by Moe
If you have a criminal record, you are not allowed to own a gun.

That is one of the classes of persons that manufacturers and licensed sellers are not allowed to sell to.

There is the gun show loophole, where "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
Some states require background checks for this type of purchase, some do not.
So to wheel around back to people wanting stricter gun laws, that would be the place to do it.

The "gun show loophole" as it's called, is referred to for both gun shows as well as private sales in general (e.g. I am trying to sell a gun in a legal manor, as a regular citizen)
This is also referred to as the "Secondary Market"
Anpther thing about gun shows is that, federally, they are not required to record the sale or ask for identification.
some states have laws for this, whereas some others do not.
Like I said, for those talking about wanting stricter gun laws, this is the best place to start.
Last I checked, roughly 30 states don't require background checks at gun shows.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:02 pm
by nich
moe wrote:If you have a criminal record, you are not allowed to own a gun.

That is one of the classes of persons that manufacturers and licensed sellers are not allowed to sell to.

There is the gun show loophole, where "any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.
Some states require background checks for this type of purchase, some do not.
So to wheel around back to people wanting stricter gun laws, that would be the place to do it.

The "gun show loophole" as it's called, is referred to for both gun shows as well as private sales in general (e.g. I am trying to sell a gun in a legal manor, as a regular citizen)
This is also referred to as the "Secondary Market"
Anpther thing about gun shows is that, federally, they are not required to record the sale or ask for identification.
some states have laws for this, whereas some others do not.
Like I said, for those talking about wanting stricter gun laws, this is the best place to start.
Last I checked, roughly 30 states don't require background checks at gun shows.
But the Orlando shooter was under investigation as a terrorist before this happened yet he was able to buy the guns.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:40 pm
by Wesley
It is because his previous record was not updated in the Federal database. They are antiquated, and it can lead to things such as this.

If you are not from the 'States, it can seem like everyone gets a gun in their wheaties, but there are indeed laws and licenses and restrictions as to who can and cannot buy, sell, and own a handgun. There are different laws for rifles and military weapons.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:47 am
by nich
Never said there wasn't any laws. But clearly there isn't enough.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:18 pm
by bella
There should be at least standard laws which apply for everybody.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:58 pm
by Wesley
There are.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:46 pm
by bella
If you can buy weapons in some states at fairs without background checks or on private sales and in some you can't, the laws are not standard throughout the country.

Re: guns, fags, and god

Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:59 pm
by Wesley
There are some laws that are standard throughout. There are some laws that are not. Therein lies the problem. All laws, regulations, and restrictions need to be standard nationwide.