Healthcare Reform

[Shay]

So I'm just curious.. are you for or against the Healthcare Reform and why?

[Wesley]

Since it already passed, I am for it!

[yeah, that's the easy way out....]

I don't know if it is the best change, but something needed to change. The health of a country's citizens should not be based on the size of their wallets.

I have high expectations.



And to all the naysayers who decry this as fascism or communism or any of that crap, SHUT UP! Do you feel the same way about the current welfare system? How about Social Security? I have said this many times, but the best road to travel is usually near the middle. This is the same for politics as well as other things.

[Shay]

I don't think it's been signed by the president yet. I think it just passed the House. Or at least that was my understanding. I could very well be wrong. They're still working on the bill that will implement certain changes afterward. I heard through the rumor mill though that a group of legislatures are forming together to appeal the reform because "it goes against the constitution." However, I'm not able to find more information on that.

Edit: I found a small article regarding the appeal against the reform.
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010 ... latestnews


Also, if anyone is unfamiliar with exactly what this reform entails, here is a link that pretty much lists it all out in easy-to-understand format.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN191 ... 319?rpc=60

[Wesley]

It was signed this morning at 11:15. There are bugs to be worked out, but change was needed.

Next thing that needs it is the broken Welfare system. Nobody should be punished for trying harder and rewarded for doing less.

[Shay]

Ah, my bad. I had not had that information yet.

But yeah, I definitely agree with you on the welfare system. Like the idea of it is great and all, but the way it's used is just blown completely out of proportion. The welfare system is horribly abused.

[Clovvach]

Me: all for it.

I can be treated for health care even though I have a "pre-existing condition" (autism)

[chex]

Yeah, the pre-existing condition part is great! I'm pissed that abortions aren't covered though. I'm glad the bill passed because I think it's a step in the right direction. I just wish it had been a bigger step.

[Shay]

I am indifferent to be completely honest. I am neither for or against it. Change is good, that I will admit. Whether it will turn out to be a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but I do know something definitely had to change. We've been doing the same thing over and over and over for years and it wasn't getting us anywhere but in the same position over and over again, sometimes worse.

I do have my questions though. I still don't see how this (among other things) is supposed to make us debt free. Someone has to pay for this. It certainly doesn't come free to establish and maintain nationwide healthcare for all. Also, how is this going to affect insurance companies? This reform is also supposed to open up more options to choose from. However, I am wondering if many of the insurance companies that cannot handle this kind of change and end up having to pay for a bunch of procedures will end up going bankrupt, leaving maybe the top three leading insurance companies. Then wouldn't that actually decrease our options of choice?

There is one that I am 100% against though, provided it's true. I'll admit I haven't yet done my research on the bill that they want to add to make changes to the current reform. However, I heard that this additional bill is to basically include our illegal non US citizens. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this. I'll have to check into that some more later to get the facts.

[raiden676]

I hate to be the first, but I have to say I hate it.

First, when I thought about it, I kind of focused my attention on what would happen. Like, what would happen if I suddenly fell sick to something that takes months or even years to cure. Before this bill was made, we had the option to make whatever choices we want into improving our health. Now, it's like were giving the government the choice of what they want to do to us, and how they want to fix our problem. They could lead us down a road that could have consequences.

Secondly, just to tell you, I am true blood republican. And all of the republicans voted against it. But wait! I also heard some were bribed out of their vote and their votes were changed. It just goes to show you how this government can be so materialistic. Some didn't even bother to vote!!! What the hell!!! If you want your opinion heard, isn't that the best way to have your opinion heard? I know they might not have wanted to vote because they might have been maybe a little overconfident. They should have voted, even if it was either for or against the bill.

Besides, we are in a "TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT". It may be a step in the right direction, but it is down the long road of recovery. It would take us centuries to pay that debt off.

[Clovvach]

bribed out of their vote and their votes were changed.

I'm OK with you hating the form, but this is where I have some doubt.

[Wesley]

I watched the vote live. You are being fed rhetoric and gossip. Also, if it only took us a few years to amass a trillion in debt, why will it take centuries to pay it off? It is not like one dude has to pay it all; a trillion divided my 300 million suddenly is not all that much.

And here is something that sickens me: Any politician who votes the party line regardless of right or wrong, benefit or detriment, fact or fiction. Republicans who automatically vote against any bill drafted by a Democrat, and Democrats who automatically vote FOR any bill drafted by a democrat. We are all Americans dammit! Get the facts, vote on what is important, not how you think your party wants you to vote.

[Shay]

And here is something that sickens me: Any politician who votes the party line regardless of right or wrong, benefit or detriment, fact or fiction. Republicans who automatically vote against any bill drafted by a Democrat, and Democrats who automatically vote FOR any bill drafted by a democrat. We are all Americans dammit! Get the facts, vote on what is important, not how you think your party wants you to vote.

I couldn't agree more.

And to you, Raiden, I did not vote for either Obama nor McCain. So many people seem to forget that there is more than just the two main candidates running. I can't count how many people say, "I don't like either one, but I guess I'll vote for the lesser of two evils." I do not believe in this concept. Yes, because so many other people do, my one vote that I pick elsewhere will probably not make even the slightest difference. However if everyone would actually take the time to check out the other candidates and what they have to offer, rather than voting on "the lesser of two evils" then that might change later down the road.

/end mini sub rant

[Clovvach]

'Greed (agreed). I sure hope nobody objects when I say it, but I try to be as open minded as possible. I don't reject opinions immediately based on who else is rejecting them, I Keep and reject opinions as they seem fit.

I'm not a big fan of Sarah Plain, but if she passed a bill that cured cancer (I mean cured cancer. Just like that.), then I'd be all for it

[Shay]

Your analogies amuse me sometimes. Speaking of Sarah Palin, I must say I find it ironic and a little funny that they fight so hard against the healthcare reform, but then she crosses the border to Canada for healthcare. Uh...????

[chex]

Shay, I think her parents took her across the border for healthcare when she was a child, which can't really be held against her. But it is pretty damn funny. Her parents must be so proud of her!

Raiden, how do you feel about the reform helping people get coverage who wouldn't have otherwise had it? How do you feel about being allowed to stay on your parents plan until you're 26, giving you time to find a decent job?

[raiden676]

And about the voting, I didn't vote this year because I felt like these were 2 evenly matched candidates. Technically, I didn't care who won, just as long as George Bush got out of office. All he did was cause trouble. His first year in office was about the only time he was a good president.

Oh and thanks for clearing the vote up. I was told by an anonymous source that some were bribed out of their votes. I actually needed someone who actually watched the vote. Based upon what I heard, that same person didn't watch the vote. Just goes to show you don't believe in what you hear.

I trust you.

[chex]

Raiden, how do you feel about the reform helping people get coverage who wouldn't have otherwise had it? How do you feel about being allowed to stay on your parents plan until you're 26, giving you time to find a decent job?

Here, Raiden. Just in case you missed the questions directed at you the first time.

Since, you know, this is the debate section.

[Wesley]

26? Interesting number.... Hmmm, most people graduate high school at 18... 2 years for Associate... 2 more for Bachelor... 2 more for Master... plus 2 for Doctorate... If I stay in school I can have it all finished by the time I'm 26. Yup, this new plan will help me stay insured throughout my secondary education. It seems like they really thought it through for a few things like this.

[Shay]

We've got some dental plans at work that insure dependent children until they're 31 and can even include their parents as a covered dependent. Crazy!

[raiden676]

I particularly don't know.

I do know that by the time I graduate college, (age 21), I will have a decent enough job in biopharmaceuticals and biotechnology. The graduation rate is only 33%, but considering how my grades are, I will join that 33%. Secondly, I am entering a job that will most likely never leave the United States. Considering the importance for pharmaceutical products. I also heard at a nearby job site, their application approval rate is at 95%!!! Talecris, here I come.