Ok, lemme go through what I have time for right now. First off, gay is a lifestyle. How is it a lifestyle? Um, that's kinda self explanatory and I can't believe i have to explain. Lifestyle is how you live your life, and it includes such things as values, morals, beliefs, hobbies, sexuality, gender identity, career choice, what you do with free time, etc etc etc. Gay is sexuality which is a lifestyle.
Nope. Wrong. A lifestyle is a choice and people don't choose to be gay, they are born that way.
God is our Heavenly Father, and punishes us when we do wrong....just like Earthly Parents punish their children when they misbehave. So don't say it's 'unfair' or 'evil' or 'unjust'. It's the same principal as Earthly parents, so it's completely fair and good and just.
God is not my Daddy. Do I need to take him on Maury? But seriously, give me a break. Parents take TV away and use time outs when they punish. They do not cause death, incurable diseases, hurricanes, floods, famine, etc, etc. Not the same.
As a side note, the 'religious leaders' that violate their own principles, like homosexuality and pedophilia, need to be taken from their position, and the pedos need to be put in jail. Being a 'religious leader' does not give one the right to do anything they want.
You are right. But they just keep sending them to other churches. That is the problem.
We can be loved by God with free will, we just have to live by his rules. We can have church however we want, hang out however we want, do whatever we want, so long as the rules apply. Same as in society. You can drive anywhere, as long as you do it legally. You can buy anything, so long as you don't steal. You can have parties, so long as it is legal. It's not unfair or unreasonable or unheard of.
This whole statement contradicts itself. God gives us free will as long as we follow the rules? OK, but what does that mean when all of God's rules make it impossible to have free will?
I just want to get up to my shack and get drunk. -The Thing
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle, people don't choose to bo gay. (Sorry Lisa, I know you said it but I had to emphasize it again). What is sinful about people loving each other ?
According to the bible every human is innately sinful, born with original sin, so we all are tainted with sin.
To say homosexuality is caused by chemical imbalances or mental disabilities is just wrong. If you lived according to Christian values you would show some modesty and respect to others, not starting a rant.
We are humans, so don't put one group into a category like that, every person is different and doesn't deserve to be judged like that. Who are we to judge over others? And who are we to think we know it all? You can read the bible in the way you want but it is impudent to think that this is the right way, only because you assume it is. The bible was written by people and people can err.
Who created the picture of an angry punishing god? Who says it's him (or her by the way) who tries to teach humans a lesson through punishment? People who read the bible the way they want to.
Modesty is a virtue.
No, you aren't born gay unless you have a biological defect. Then you are born gay, and unnatural. Sorry, but that's medical science, phycology, and sociology. Gay is a product of: biologic defect, society, past circumstances, or personal choice.
We call God "father" because he created us. That makes him the father, the creator, same thing really. Death, diseases, floods, famine...all are natural things. They are called LIFE. Funny thing LIFE is. Also funny how all the good stuff has nothing to do with God and all the bad stuff is from a God who doesn't exist. Failed logic right there. No, bad circumstances are usually just a product of LIFE. God does cause sickness, but he cures it...God causes death sometimes, but in the end there is a greater good done...God doesn't cause storms, that's just a natural phenomenon on Earth....God caused famines, but he also provided some form of food. So yeah, it's punishment sometimes, but there is always something there. God lets LIFE happen to get our attention, that is his punishment. Btw, ever not had money to pay for tv or something because a sudden unexpected event popped up? Ever thought that's God's way of grounding us from tv? =P think outside the box.
I never said our system was perfect or Christians are perfect. A lot of christians are stupid. Such as, the ones that allow the religious leaders to become corrupt and point fingers at the corrupt unsaved leaders. That doesn't make all Christians stupid though. I don't agree with it. Being religious doesn't mean a thing. You still have to follow rules. In fact, you got more rules to follow being religious, and you have a responsibility to do what you can to live right. You break it, you get treated just like the criminal you are. That's my view.
Um, God gives us free will, but he can't allow us to do whatever. Think about that for a minute. If anyone could do whatever they want, the world would be in complete chaos all the time. Murder, rape, theft....worse than it is now, more crime than now, no rules against it. Why in the world would anyone want full complete power to do whatever they want? God's rules make it possible to have free will. You just have laws you have to follow. You can party with your friends, just stay away from drugs, alcohol, and tickle fights. You can have whatever job you want, just give glory to God. You can go anywhere you want, just stay away from bars, strip clubs, gangs, stuff like that. It's fair, it's free will, and the rules are for our safety.
I am a friend and companion of the night. I rejoice in spilled blood and the baying of dogs. I wander among shades and tombs. I am Gorgo, and Mormo, of the thousand-faced moon. -The Touch of Satan
Bella Lugosi wrote:Homosexuality is not a lifestyle, people don't choose to bo gay. (Sorry Lisa, I know you said it but I had to emphasize it again). What is sinful about people loving each other ?
According to the bible every human is innately sinful, born with original sin, so we all are tainted with sin.
To say homosexuality is caused by chemical imbalances or mental disabilities is just wrong. If you lived according to Christian values you would show some modesty and respect to others, not starting a rant.
We are humans, so don't put one group into a category like that, every person is different and doesn't deserve to be judged like that. Who are we to judge over others? And who are we to think we know it all? You can read the bible in the way you want but it is impudent to think that this is the right way, only because you assume it is. The bible was written by people and people can err.
Who created the picture of an angry punishing god? Who says it's him (or her by the way) who tries to teach humans a lesson through punishment? People who read the bible the way they want to.
Modesty is a virtue.
Gay is not natural. Deny it if you want, but it's not. The studies prove it. It's fact, whether you want to believe it or not, gay is not natural. I can't change your mind, and i'm not going to. Bottom line, it's been proven to be unnatural. Medical science, psychology, and sociology all prove it is unnatural. I'm sorry, but that's just the facts. A mentally disabled person is mentally disabled, there is no way around that. That's just how it is. It's unfair yes, but that's just how it is. It's truth. Homosexuality is a state of mind, a lifestyle, and a mental disability. That is what it's labeled as, that is what it's proven to be, that is what it is. Not the people's fault, so I will not judge them nor will I say gay's should be shunned or removed from society.
Yes we are tainted with sin, which is why we can't go to Heaven unless covered by Jesus (saved). And we must repent and do the best we can to avoid sin.
Nobody made an image of an angry God in the Bible. That was a scare tactic used by a group of idiot Christians who though scaring people was the best way to witness. I'm sorry, but I hate that view and I am completely against the belief that God wants us all to burn in Hell. That is wrong, that is against the Bible, and that is completely illogical.
God does punish the wicked, just like a parent punishes their child. But remember, not everything happens because God made it happen. Sometimes, LIFE just happens. God lets LIFE happen to remind us that LIFE is not all glorious like we want to believe it is. LIFE sucks, that's just how it is. We make it good ourselves by choosing to be better, by choosing to help people, by choosing to let peace and love reign instead of hatred and anger. God is love, therefore, we won't see God unless we bring love into the world. Why does God let bad stuff happen? 1) to teach us a lesson, 2) it's LIFE, and 3) because we fail to show love in the world, so we deny God his outlet into the world, so God has no foothold to do what he needs to in order to make LIFE good. It's not God's fault bad things happen, it's our own.
I am a friend and companion of the night. I rejoice in spilled blood and the baying of dogs. I wander among shades and tombs. I am Gorgo, and Mormo, of the thousand-faced moon. -The Touch of Satan
How do you now? Are you gay? Are you a doctor? Did you make a scientific research which proves you right? Studies? I assume you have read them but wait, you're eighteen, I doubt you have read that much about it.
Hearsay, that's all you have. You have no prove. Maybe it's what you believe.
Also, you say god punishes those who do sin and stuff. Well, how do you explain the tsunami? And earthquakes? What the smurf hell did those people do wrong? The poorest, most hard working people ever in places like Africa, and India, what did they do to deserve that?
Naesme wrote:Gay is not natural. Deny it if you want, but it's not. The studies prove it. It's fact, whether you want to believe it or not, gay is not natural. I can't change your mind, and i'm not going to. Bottom line, it's been proven to be unnatural. Medical science, psychology, and sociology all prove it is unnatural. I'm sorry, but that's just the facts. A mentally disabled person is mentally disabled, there is no way around that. That's just how it is. It's unfair yes, but that's just how it is. It's truth. Homosexuality is a state of mind, a lifestyle, and a mental disability. That is what it's labeled as, that is what it's proven to be, that is what it is. Not the people's fault, so I will not judge them nor will I say gay's should be shunned or removed from society.
That's your opinion. And my opinion is it's natural. You get gay animals (not just humans) and they can't help it. Neither can humans. I just seriously don't see what's wrong with gay people though.
Why do you hate them so much? I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just wondering why you don't like gay people. You may have already said it and I've just missed it, but all I've seen is 'I don't like the gay lifestyle' and about God and gays and the bible. Why do YOU not like gay people?
"...The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is an example of normal and positive variation in human sexual orientation..."
I am certain that there are those who choose to be gay. I know a few. There are also those who would rather not be gay, but they are anyway. Then there are those who realize that they are gay and embrace that fact. This is unhealthy? Moving on...
What does x-ianity say about the Inuits or Native Americans or Chinese who lived and died for hundreds of generations with no belief in, nor exposure to, x-ianity? The Mormons have that covered, but I have not seen an answer to that from other religions. Well, Hinduism covers it a little, but not from the Jesus side of things.
Lastly, a religion is a system of beliefs. Looking through this thread it is obvious that many of us have an understanding of each other's belief system, but choose not to follow it ourselves. This is good, this is free agency at its best.
No, you aren't born gay unless you have a biological defect. Then you are born gay, and unnatural. Sorry, but that's medical science, phycology, and sociology. Gay is a product of: biologic defect, society, past circumstances, or personal choice.
Sorry, but now I am pissed. WTF are you talking about? Show me these studies of medical science, psychology, and sociology please? And I want real scientific examples, not studies done by religious figures with hidden agendas.
Most people are born gay, there are some who choose to be that way later in life, but that doesn't even matter. Some people do however, choose to be bigoted and close-minded......and I don't agree with that LIFESTYLE.
I'm sorry, but that's just the facts. A mentally disabled person is mentally disabled, there is no way around that. That's just how it is. It's unfair yes, but that's just how it is. It's truth. Homosexuality is a state of mind, a lifestyle, and a mental disability.
Really? A mental disability? Again, show me the proof. Homosexuality is no more a state of mind than heterosexuality is. And unnatural? Whatever! Cheese in a can in unnatural and we still embrace that. Come on now!!!!!
That is wrong, that is against the Bible, and that is completely illogical.
And so is everything in the Bible.
Also funny how all the good stuff has nothing to do with God and all the bad stuff is from a God who doesn't exist. Failed logic right there. No, bad circumstances are usually just a product of LIFE. God does cause sickness, but he cures it...God causes death sometimes, but in the end there is a greater good done...God doesn't cause storms, that's just a natural phenomenon on Earth....God caused famines, but he also provided some form of food. So yeah, it's punishment sometimes, but there is always something there. God lets LIFE happen to get our attention, that is his punishment. Btw, ever not had money to pay for tv or something because a sudden unexpected event popped up? Ever thought that's God's way of grounding us from tv? =P think outside the box.
Haha. This is funny to me because it is the Christians who thank God for the good and never give him blame for the bad. I don't think God is responsible either way, because I do not believe God exists. Tell me, what greater good comes from a little child suffering and dying from cancer? What greater good comes from a child losing a parent?
And if there was a God, I highly doubt he would care about punishing us from TV. That is funny though, how you think God would do that, but can not find a way to bring punishment onto someone who rapes and beats children.
I just want to get up to my shack and get drunk. -The Thing
I think I mentioned this in an old post, or possibly in the old forum, but there is a funny short story by Orson Scott Card wherein a gentleman dies and is greeted by a messenger for the afterlife. He tells the messenger that since he lived as an Athiest, he has no destination. The messenger says his soul has to go somewhere. The man tells him to do what he needs to do, and as the messenger folds the man's soul to put it in his satchel, the soul puffs into dust and disappears.
First, yes actually I have done extensive studies about a lot of topics in order to get a feel for a variety of fields in which I may possibly make my professional career after college. I have studied medicine, psychology, sociology, and many others in order to make an informed and detailed decision about which career is best for me. So I know a lot of stuff about these subjects because I have done my research and homework and studied. If you do not believe me, then whatever, I am not looking for your belief. I know what i have done and learned, you don't.
Secondly, as I have said before, LIFE HAPPENS. LIFE SUCKS. PEOPLE DIE. STORMS HAPPEN. THE EARTH MOVES. IT'S CALLED LIFE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD MOST OF THE TIME. Since you people can't read normal type, I capped that for you. =D you are welcome.
now again, I must say this. I DON'T FREAKING HATE GAY PEOPLE!!! I DON'T AGREE WITH HOMOSEXUALITY!! AGAIN I MUST SAY THIS FOR THE HUNDREDTH TIME BEAUSE NOBODY READS WHAT I TYPE. There capped that too. Do you get it now?!?!? Honestly, I can't debate if nobody listens or reads what I say. Pay attention people.
There are mentally handicapped animals too. Does that make it natural and ok and right and should they be left alone and not helped? Nope. There are homosexuals that cant control what they think. I understand that, in fact I've already said that. Now, there are thieves that can't control their urge to steal, murderers who can't help but kill, and liars who can't help but lie. Also, pedophiles are just sexually attracted to children. Do any of them deserve rights? Nope. Tell me, if two guys or girls having tickle fights is ok, then why isn't a grown man looking at an image of a child right? Oh yeah, CAUSE IT'S NOT NORMAL! IT'S SICK AND DISGUSTING! Funny, 2 men = right. 2 women = right. 1 man + 1 young woman = wrong. Or 1 older woman + 1 younger man = wrong. Or 1 older person + 1 younger person of same tickle fight = wrong. Hmmm, why's that? Oh yeah, we see age divides but not gender divides. Because all genders are equal but not all ages are. Homosexuality breaks the gender divide of sexuality and therefore people don't wanna say it's wrong, cause it promotes gender equality. A different perspective there for you to think about.
And, btw, whoever put the crap at the end of my profile, that's really stupid =/
Oh and to add to some arguments.
The studies I saw were not religious at all, they were done by atheists. And they weren't widely distributed because the people who did them were just making observations and didn't want to get involved in the debate. I am not close-minded, actually i'm open minded in saying it can't be helped and shouldn't be looked down upon. =/ You are close-minded by saying there is a problem with me not liking it. Funny.
Wow, everything in the Bible is wrong and illogical? Do not murder...oh it's in the Bible, guess I should go kill somebody now. Do not steal....oh that's in the Bible too, hey imma come grab your car if that's ok..oh wait, it is cause the Bible says not to =D Be nice to each other......you are all a bunch of retarded button pushing monkeys =D the bible said be nice, but the bible is stupid so being nice is too =D (sorry, I don't actually feel that way XD You people are great debaters really =P Really making me think XD Even if I get upset XD And a lot of you are actually pretty cool.) Get the picture yet?
God does good, and God lets bad happen. No, I don't agree with everything that happens. My great-grandfather who was very close to me died. Think I'm all like "WOOO THANK YOU GOD!!!!"? Nope, I was really upset. I prayed he'd get well, and he died. I was like "what the heck God? Can't heal one person? What's up with that?" But guess what? Our family got a lot of love and support, and a lot of family feuds ended. People came together, new friends were made, family that hasn't spoken in years were there for each other. Good came of it. Even if it wasn't how I wanted it done, his death caused a lot of good to happen. And he doesn't suffer anymore. Look at the aftermath, look at people related to the situation. Bad stuff happens, but a lot of good happens to. You never know. Maybe a mother kicked her child out of her house, but when a close friend's child dies...that mother takes her child back. You never know what good came from it.
Hmm, rapist gets caught and killed. Nope, God didn't take care of that guy...poor dude is gonna rape more...oh wait, he can't, he's dead now >.< God uses death to punish, that's not fair you say.....well um, death stopped a dude from raping more. O.o Death stopped a dude from killing more O.o YOu want them alive and running around? I'm sorry, I thought you wanted justice...my mistake. Sure innocent people die. But is that God's fault? Not really. God is love, but God can't operate through love if hatred is the only thing that exists. Make sense?
I am a friend and companion of the night. I rejoice in spilled blood and the baying of dogs. I wander among shades and tombs. I am Gorgo, and Mormo, of the thousand-faced moon. -The Touch of Satan
Dig this: We are not hating on you nor are we bashing you or your beliefs. The main thing here is often you fail to differentiate between what is and what you believe is. See, there are so many of us in here, and no two of us believe exactly the same stuff, yet we all get along. The manner in which you present your beliefs is the main thing causing the hubbub.
I don't have time to formulate a complete response right now but what I was saying before is I want links to the scientific evidence stating that a person cannot be born gay. Professional proof with with resources and facts that back up the material.
I never said you hated gays, but you are calling homosexuality wrong and unnatural and a mental disability. To me that is bigoted and closed-minded.
I'll be back later with a better response.
I just want to get up to my shack and get drunk. -The Thing
We don't have a problem with you stating your opinion or saying what you don't like, everyone is welcome to share their thoughts, as you did. It's the tune which makes the melody.
Naesme, you have your facts wrong. All the studies have shown that being gay IS natural. I don't think of it as a defect in a chromosome. It's a misprint. That's all. There's nothing wrong, nothing immoral, nothing disgusting about homosexuals. And it is most definitely NOT a lifestyle. Sexuality is a lifestyle, yes; but sexual ORIENTATION is not. That's where you're getting confused. People who are gay don't choose to be gay, but they choose to live their life to the fullest as a gay person. That means fall in love, have a relationship, and be connected to their partner in every single way.
What in the hell is wrong with that?
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Dr. Carl Sagan
in NO WAY does being gay make you disabled. It doesn't make you less than anyone else in any way, and it doesn't take a doctor to see that. Saying being gay is a mental disability, is like saying being black is a physical disability.
But seriously, give me a break. Parents take TV away and use time outs when they punish. They do not cause death, incurable diseases, hurricanes, floods, famine, etc, etc. Not the same.
