Religion

[Yaz Pistachio]

I think he means unnatural as in different. But that's a bad word choice. When you say unnatural, that implies bad, whether you meant it or not.

And one thing is not even debatable. The facts have proven that it IS natural. It's just a different chromosome, just like people with Down Syndrome. It's a chromosomal misprint. That's it. There's nothing unnatural about it. Everything that has to do with the body is natural, unless it involves an outside substance or factor, and homosexuality is none of that. Homosexuality is not a combination of DNA and society, which you may have said in a previous post (Maybe, I'm not certain.) Society has no effect on a person's sexuality. It's all natural, and all chromosomal.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

Let me ask you a question, Naesme. How does it affect you or anger you if a random couple of two consenting adult males are together 2,000 miles away from you? How does it affect you at all? Does it have ANY impact on your life whatsoever?

[Clovvach]

Yaz (or the bloody bookworm or whatever) makes a good point. Gay couples are harming no one, so how is it wrong?

[LaLou]

the facts are that it is unnatural.

Not true:
http://www.innovations-report.com/html/ ... 72574.html

[Yaz Pistachio]

Thank you for real evidence! *bows down to LaLilith*

[Wesley]

There are cases where environment has shaped a person's choice of sexuality. None of this stuff we are discussing is 100% anything; it is all shades of grey.

[Beany]

Whenever one of your friends is on crutches, everyone says 'Can I have a go??' all the time.

My cousin told us she had no friends. Which I think is kinda sad. But she never gets out now.

[Naesme]

Hey, there are mentally disabled animals too =O Oh my gosh that is normal and we really have to stop trying to fix the mentally disabled/handicapped. =/ Yeah, animals doing it doesn't really mean anything. In fact, homosexuality among animals is probably from the same thing that causes it in humans. So it doesn't make homosexuality 'natural' it makes what causes it 'natural. There is a bit of difference there ya know.

Also, ok I'll admit, mental disability isn't in the right context. Mental disorder is. Mental disorder implies something isn't balance correctly in the makeup of the individual. And that is exactly what causes homosexuality. Now, that is not saying a homosexual man can't function like a straight man..to say that is denying facts and truth. All I'm saying is, it is a widespread abnormal frame of mind, and in many cases it can't be helped.

I have not been judgemental.....again I am saying HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong. Just cause someone is caught up in it doesn't mean anybody is any better than them. I don't believe homosexuality is natural or right. But I don't believe it is always a choice either. I'm not saying we should force anyone into therapy, all I'm saying is that we should be better educated about it and tell the truth about it. Stop saying everything is natural about it, start saying it is a disorder. But then say there are treatments (because there are) for those WHO WANT IT, it is OPTIONAL, you DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY TREATMENTS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. People have a choice. There are homosexuals that don't like being homosexual, but nobody cares about them. They don't get media attention, they don't get special treatment, nobody fights for their case. We are in fact forcing them to accept their state of mind and we are being close-minded by saying it should be acceptable and nobody should have a problem with it. Sorry, but the media rips to shreds anyone found standing against it. Preachers are in prison after being tried for a 'hate crime' because they said they don't agree with it. We Christians are close-minded bigots? Most of us just disagree with homosexuality, but don't want harsh punishments for a homosexual person. We just want to get our point across that it isn't natural and anyone that is a homosexual and doesn't want to be can be.....well idk a good word. Treated isn't that good of a choice. Well anyway, you get what I'm saying. No, brainwashed doesn't fit either. Now I do understand that there are really hateful christians.....I don't agree with those ones either.

So, let's reach a common ground. Instead of getting mad and throwing insults around, and falsely accusing me of stuff, try to understand...and I shall do the same. I get what you mean by homosexuality not always being a choice, I agree there. But I do not agree it is a perfectly natural thing. There are things that homosexuals can't do, and things homosexual relationships don't have. So according to my research and logic, it isn't natural, but it isn't something that should be looked down upon and made an outcast of society. It is something that options should be available for, and people should be free to choose whether they agree with it or not. I shouldn't be attacked for saying it's wrong. Just like you shouldn't be attacked for saying it's right. See my point?

[chex]

Hey, there are mentally disabled animals too =O Oh my gosh that is normal and we really have to stop trying to fix the mentally disabled/handicapped. =/ Yeah, animals doing it doesn't really mean anything. In fact, homosexuality among animals is probably from the same thing that causes it in humans. So it doesn't make homosexuality 'natural' it makes what causes it 'natural. There is a bit of difference there ya know.

Again. Yes. It is natural. There is nothing to be fixed.

I have not been judgemental.....again I am saying HOMOSEXUALITY is wrong.

Holy direct contradiction, Batman!

[Clovvach]

Basically 3 paragraphs saying that homosexuality isn't natural.

Witch is untrue, I don't even need to do the research, it's all in the logic. Homosexuality, like down syndrome, and autism, occurs naturally because it is all in genetics, there is no outside drug that comes and messes with you to make you gay or something, no it's just your body making you gay.

Now you might say "but you compared it to Down syndrome and and autism, witch occur naturally, but are still mental disorders!", witch brings me back to the point that homosexuality doesn't limit you like Down Syndrome, and autism does. Heck even some types of autism aren't considered Mental disorders, because they don't really limit you, they just make you different than the majority. Like homosexuality.

So you know, it's perfectly natural.

Holy direct contradiction, Batman!

lulz.

[chex]

Hit post too soon. The way I quote, this is easier. Okay...

caught up in it

The smiley limit won't allow me to show how much I'm rolling my eyes at the use of that expression.

But then say there are treatments (because there are) for those WHO WANT IT, it is OPTIONAL, you DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY TREATMENTS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO.

Ooh, ooh! How about, instead of being made to feel shame for something that IS perfectly natural, (again, found in nature) and acting as though it is something to be fixed we work on the attitude of society, and stop being judgmental. Much more beneficial than teaching self hatred.

We Christians are close-minded bigots?

It has nothing to do with you being Christian, and no one has said otherwise. I've said that you are spewing this crap because of your religion, but I mean you specifically. I know many Christians who aren't closed-minded bigots. Some posting in this thread! And that's not "oh, they're the good kind of Christian" crap. I'm not making blanket statements. When I say you're narrow-minded, I mean you, Naesme. Not you as a Christian.

throwing insults around

Who is throwing around insults? What was that you said a few posts ago about button-pushing monkeys? Oh, but that's okay, because you said you didn't really mean it. What insults have been thrown at you in this thread?

people should be free to choose whether they agree with it or not.

I see this, and I read "I'm free to judge who I want." Hey, can we start judging those crazy interracial relationships next?

Preachers are in prison after being tried for a 'hate crime' because they said they don't agree with it.

1. cite please.
2. If, in fact, they are being tried for a hate crime, there's no need to add the quotes.



Seriously, substitute "interracial relationship" for "homosexuality" in your arguments to see just how ridiculous they are. And if you don't want to have your views examined, don't post in a debate thread.

You've been given cites for why your claim that it is unnatural is factually wrong. Time to find something new.

Naesme: Grass is orange.
NELGer 1: *provides link proving otherwise*
Naesme: Grass is orange!
NELGer 2: *provides another link proving otherwise*
Naesme: GRASS IS ORANGE!!! Stop attacking me!! I can have my beliefs, and you're narrow-minded for telling me grass isn't orange!!!

[chex]

Oh, and Clov, I'm really glad you brought up the autism comparison. I've been wanting to do that, but couldn't think of good wording.

[Clovvach]

No problem.

And I laughed at your "grass is orange" thing.

[Evil Lisa]

THAT IS IT!!!! I cannot take this anymore. This isn't even related to religion anymore. So I am changing the subject to something relevant to religious debate and not Naesme's close-minded views.

A Florida pastor was planning on burning the Qurans on 9/11. Thankfully he came to his senses and did not follow through. Because he didn't follow through he won a car!!!

Here is the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39683559

Let's discuss!

[chex]

Aw, where's the fun?

[Wesley]

Seriously, Zoroastrianism, anyone? Let's chat!

[Yaz Pistachio]

Naesme: Grass is orange.
NELGer 1: *provides link proving otherwise*
Naesme: Grass is orange!
NELGer 2: *provides another link proving otherwise*
Naesme: GRASS IS ORANGE!!! Stop attacking me!! I can have my beliefs, and you're narrow-minded for telling me grass isn't orange!!!

I want to sig this so badly.

[Yaz Pistachio]

And you never answered my question, Naesme.

How does it affect you or anger you if a random couple of two consenting adult males are together 2,000 miles away from you? How does it affect you at all? Does it have ANY impact on your life whatsoever?

Also, have you ever actually talked to a homosexual about this? Are they any different from you because they like the same gender? On the surface, does it really matter to you?

I just want you to understand that it is not preventable. It is a congenital condition. You're born with it. And I say condition and not disease for a reason. It doesn't hinder you. Like Clovvach said about Autism and Down Syndrome. Being homosexual does not have an impact on your life that causes you to be disabled. It's not a handicap.

And I'm sick of the it's not natural crap. Natural and normal do not mean the same things.

[bella]

What is normal anyway. Who defines it? Is it what the majority agrees upon? Swimming in the stream is always the easiest way. Being different and being proud of it requires some courage.

[LaLou]

@ Naesma: Stop repeting the same thing over and over again.

Please.

I don't even read your posts any more, they're too long.

@ Evil Lisa: So that pastor is corrupt. What's new.

@ Zot: I'd love to discuss Zoroastrianism. What's it about?

@ The Bloody Bookworm:

Natural and normal do not mean the same things.

Amen.

[Evil Lisa]

@ Naesma: Stop repeting the same thing over and over again.

Please.

I don't even read your posts any more, they're too long.

@ Evil Lisa: So that pastor is corrupt. What's new.

@ Zot: I'd love to discuss Zoroastrianism. What's it about?

@ The Bloody Bookworm:

Natural and normal do not mean the same things.

Amen.

Ditto to all of that.