equal rights

[bella]

Having equal rights is a good thing, same rights apply to males and females. But do we need it if we don't really want it? Who of you girls would like running around naked (upper body part) in public? It has a lot to do with education, no doubts but it makes us feel uncomfortable if private parts are exposed. Males would think 'wohoo' if they get a nice sight but being constantly stared at is not something I would choose on purpose.

[Jonny Boy]

Let's remember that I'm not against nudity personally. People should have equal right, I completely agree. I don't want men to walk around shirtless either.

Statistically, men pay more for insurance because more men crash their cars, especially young men.
Statistically, men rape women more.
These are just facts. Yes I COULD be raped by a woman but in general I'm a lot more safe than a woman is.

Can a society suddenly go against instinct? Can a taboo suddenly change? I think that you need to change societies slowly over time. If you want to change the way that people think, then you have to change the next generation.

Societies that allow nudity or have allowed nudity didn't do so overnight and nudity didn't lose it's taboo overnight or if you're talking about indigenous tribes, they never really did adopt much clothing except for protection.

[Shay]

I'm not saying there isn't logic in Jon's post, and I'm also not saying it would happen over night. Clearly we already have a problem with equal rights in the gay community. But as you can see, we are sloooowly turning that around. This is definitely something that would need to take lots of time. That is a well-known fact. BUT, the issue here is still equal rights, not the "protection" that everyone seems that we females need. We are grown adults. Start letting us make our own decisions rather than deciding for us. And yes, if given the opportunity, I would walk around in public topless. I cannot count how many times on a hot day, where I would just love the lounge around in my front lawn without a shirt just as all the other men get to do. Must be damn nice! And for those women who would feel uncomfortable, you don't have to go topless. It's simply the option to do so because you have equal rights as a male.

[chex]

So very well said. I think I shall follow you around the board and ditto you.

[Jonny Boy]

I'm not saying that I or anyone else should make the decision for just women alone. I don't want to see men's naked chest, I'd like to see women's naked chests but if you want to be equal and safe then I say no shirt, no shoes, no service.

Also the "protection" is not just for women but for everyone. I get why you want to be able to go topless but I don't think it's a good idea. Just like how I'll never jump out of a plane unless I'm forced to, and I'll never bungee jump off of a tall structure, I don't drive a car without insurance, I wear underwear to keep my ban hammer from getting caught in my zipper... I'll try not to put myself in danger.

[Shay]

Looks like they are already doing it in part of America. This is completely naked though, not just topless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_nud ... _Francisco

[Mouse]

Sorry, I've been absent for a while & am getting caught up a bit... I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I firmly believe that in a situation where a guy is able to remove his top, a girl should be able to as well. If I was spending an afternoon on a beach with friends on a hot day, I'd love to be able to remove my shirt. I can't say the same would be true if I were spending an afternoon walking around downtown doing some shopping (no shirt, no service). It's about appropriate time/place, right?

Desexualization of breasts will not happen overnight, but the laws have to change so that it can occur slowly over time. If I were to remove my top on a beach here, I would get slapped with an 'indecent exposure' charge. It's retarded.

And, as for shirts being protection from predators - horse shazam!. The people that rape are not going to be disinclined just because of a piece of fabric; I can't say that they won't be more inclined by the lack thereof. They're animals.
In regards to nudity among friends in a 'safe' environment... there's no such thing as a safe environment. If you put 4 intoxicated males in a room with one attractive female (fully clothed) there is a chance she will be raped, despite the existence of a trusting friendship. Trust me, I know.

Women have to be on-guard at all times; don't take your eyes off your drink, don't be walk to your car alone at night, don't dress too suggestively, don't talk to strangers, don't drink anything you didn't mix yourself or watch be mixed, don't get so drunk you pass out... the list goes on and on, it's exhausting. It shouldn't be like this. But it is. I keep a blade on me at all times now. I dare someone to come at me with their stupid little pecker ever again.

[Jonny Boy]

I completely disagree. If something doesn't look as appealing as the norm, then it's likely to be more ignored. You can't say that things that catch our eyes have no affect over us. If that was true then there would be no art, no television, no fashion industry.

[bella]

People tend to stare at abnormal things, we all are affected by our visual impressions.
I agree with Mouse though, clothing doesn't prevent people from seeing things, imagining what is behind. The bare facts are often less impressive than your own imagination. Go to a nude beach, the absence of clothes doesn't leave much room for your fantasy.
Sick people will commit crimes, clothes or not.

[Jonny Boy]

Yes they will commit crimes but guys like naked women. It's a fact. People choose appealing things.

Sorry to go off topic here but unknown soldier reminded me of something. A few years ago I was watching TV with some people that I considered friends at the time and a news story came on about a guy with mental illness who stole a sword from a shop and was swinging it around at a mall. People watched in horror from the sidelines as he attacked a woman with it and nearly hit her (ok it's not sharpened but it still has a bit of an edge to it and it is metal so it could still cut or hurt). I commented that I wish I had of been there cause I wouldn't have let it go that far and if I seen him attack a woman, I would have tackled him to the ground and beat the snot out of him. The other guys were horrified and asked why I would do something like that, they tried to explain to me that I could get hurt. Well no crap guys, but really it's my instincts and my choice to put women and children ahead of myself. I hold doors open for ladies, generally I let them go into doors first, and I try to be a gentleman in mixed company. Is this archaic? Logically it goes against equal rights.

[bella]

It's not archaic, it's polite. Defending someone in such a situation is brave and I doubt that the intention behind it would be the thought that the woman was not strong enough to defend herself.
Equal rights or not, I appreciate someone being a gentleman and being polite.
A few years ago I tripped over some plastic band lying on the street. I fell and hurt my knee while a guy was walking by, staring at me and watching me fall. He walked by.

[chex]

Don't hold the door for me because I'm a woman. Hold the door for me because I'm a human being. If I happen to be ahead of you, I'll hold the door for you. Froot Loop will even hold the door for a grown man.

[Wesley]

Holding the door was just a generalization.

[Shay]

Yes, but Chex's response can be taken in the exact same way. Doesn't matter the specifics of holding the door open or not. The same applies in every situation.

[Wesley]

I am fairly equal in my treatment of both genders. I will help a man or a woman change a tire. However, while helping the man, I will stand back, hand him a wrench or take the flat tire from him. While helping the woman, I would offer to loosed or tighten the lug nuts, operate the jack, that kind of thing.

This seems fair.

[Jonny Boy]

Doesn't matter Zot, when I "help" people at the side of the road they end up bound and gagged in my trunk regardless of gender.

[KecleonFan]

Chex, that was great. Keep it up.

[chex]

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2 ... ade-me-fat

I felt this article was germane to the topic.

[Clovvach]

like if you dress too revealing a bunch of men are going to lunge at you? Ha, fat chance. So what there are many people who can't control themselves? Does that mean we should teach women to limit themselves to "protect them from men" (wich is a generalization made too broad after all, don't you remember? Has every man in the world turned out to sexually harass everyone they are attracted too? Has every woman not? Exactly...) oh, and not to mention the fact that dressing, moving, and eating a certain way, isn't going to "protect you," aren't "modest" women sexually harassed too? Yah, exactly.

[Shay]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/topvid ... w-york.hln