Sexism

[Clovvach]

I was at a party the other day where a guy slapped a girl's butt and she freaked out, yelled at him and pushed him hard into a wall. Afterwards the guy asked his friends, "What the hell? Why did she freak out like that? I didn't even hit her that hard. Girls are so uptight"

While she did overreact a bit (I could hear the slap from where I stood, so it properly hurt more than he thought), I've heard this kind of comment before. "Why are women so boring? Why do they freak out just because you touch their bottom/breasts? If a woman grabbed my bottom I wouldn't react like that"

I just want to give a quick explanation for those guys who has yet to figure it out. Men are stronger physically than woman, there's no way to get around it, and from the day we were born women are taught that men can't be trusted. Well, except for our dads, and possibly our brothers, but we shouldn't trust your creepy uncle too much.
"Don't talk to strangers" really means "Don't talk to strange men", and we tell women not to get raped but not men that they shouldn't rape. "I'm a man, I can't help myself" is often heard when his girlfriend complains about him getting a bit too close to other girls. "Men are animals that can't control themselves. They are all dangerous. Never let a man be alone with someone else's child, he will surely rape it, and the same goes for you, young woman. All men are sexual offenders just waiting to get a chance"

That is very harshly said of course, but that's the core of what women are told throughout their lives, even by their own fathers. And even though we don't run away in horror as soon as we see a guy, for a long time before we get to know him it's somewhere in the back of our heads that he's dangerous. Studies have shown that even most men's biggest fear is other men (Getting beat up).

So if you're a guy, imagine that a guy much bigger and stronger then you grabbed your bottom and started flirting with you. That's why girls freak out over a slap on the butt.

^ I have copied and pasted this rant... and I find it EXTREMELY sexist. I do agree that rape and harassment is wrong, but honestly?

"'Don't talk to strangers' means 'don't talk to strange men'" your joking right? Haven't you ever heard of female pedophiles?

Uh-huh

"Men are always physically stronger than women"? Umm stereotyping anyone? I mean honestly, to tell you the truth Girls can be just as abusive, and there have been cases where a woman has raped a man before so don't get all male-strangers-should be-looked-upon-as-rapists on me. It's not "men harm women" it's "people harm people" K?

"Men are animals that can't control themselves. They are all dangerous. Never let a man be alone with someone else's child, he will surely rape it, and the same goes for you, young woman. All men are sexual offenders just waiting to get a chance"?

Is this what "all women are told through out there lives"? Well let ME tell you something hun, I would never ever ever ever ever ever physically harm, abuse, harass another PERSON. Period. I say, just because someone bears a penis doesn't mean they're gonna rape everyone.

Gosh people are so afraid of me because they think I'm going to hurt them, when in real life they are the ones who are threatening ME.


Sorry I get a little touchy on the subject because I hate sexism period.



Plus "men's biggest fear lies in other men" is another false statement, most of the time when I'm afraid someone is going to do something to me, half the time they are female


TL;DR: I'll say this once, but not all men are thick-headed rapists, so stop treating them like it K?

[chex]

After reading the first part (which I understand is not you, Clov) WTF? Women get pissed about bottom-slapping because we're scared of rape? No no, sweetie. Women get pissed because that's objectification, and our bodies are not for your amusement. Our asses are not there for a guy to slap because he thinks it's funny, or thinks that's a good way to hit on a girl. It's flat out disrespectful, and has nothing to do with "zOMG, he's gonna rape me!"

Clov, whoever you copied that from is a smurf dumbass.

[Clovvach]

yah... plus, and I speak as a guy, I don't have an "urge to rape" anyone (especially children... like seriously WTF)... maybe an urge to have tickle fight with someone, but defiantly not rape, that's cruel.

I mean sure there are guys who are rapists and pedos, but that doesn't mean you can going around stereotyping all men as rapists. Plus girls have done this kind of stuff before...

[Yaz Pistachio]

Clov, whoever you copied that from is a smurf dumbass.

Well said.

[bella]

It could also be a sarcastic post about raising children in the belief every man is a possible molester, not necessarily sharing this opiion. At least I hope so.
Kids should have a healthy distrust towards strangers but not grow up in fear. But agreed. Dumbass post.

[LaLou]

I don't totaly agree that it's a dumb-bottom post.

Maybe some women are stronger than some men, but IN GENERAL men ARE physically stronger than women. That is a fact.

Children ARE brought up with the warning not to talk to strangers, meaning strange men.
This is also a fact.
On a sidenote, what is also a fact is that most molested children are not abused by a stranger, but by someone that is close to them, an uncle, neighbour, father, brother.

And yes, the are female sexoffenders, but the vast majority of them are male.

Having said all that, the main reason why women freak out for a slap on the but, and why men don't get that, is because men's brains are different from women's brains. Not the "hardware" so to speak, but the "software".
It's an illusion to think that men and women are the same. They should be equal, but are not the same.

BY NATURE men have tickle fight just for the purpose of having tickle fight. Women need an emotional attachment to be able to have tickle fight. That is to assure that they are being taken care for while taking care of their baby.

In our modern society men (should have) learned to respect women, and not just see them as possible lustobjects. Most men did learn that, but those that didn't are the butslappers. They're the ones that don't understand why women freak out. They are the exceptions to the rules.

Back to the text Clovvach posted. The person who wrote is was right, but for the wrong reasons.
And indeed Clovvach, not all men are "thickheaded rapists", in fact, most are not. But the guy slapping the girls but was crossing the line, and the girl was right in correcting him. I don't think however, that the way she did that helped.

I want to emphasise again that I was speaking IN GENERAL. There are exceptions, but aren't there always?

[Clovvach]

I want to emphasise again that I was speaking IN GENERAL. There are exceptions, but aren't there always?

I know it's in general, and that's what's bothering me the fact that you and her are generalizing men like that. Like I agree that rape and harassment is a bad thing, but the only reason to say "be careful of men, they might be rapists," instead of "be careful of suspicious strangers, they might be rapists," is because of "general statistics", wich is basically generalization and shouldn't be used to judge a man just for being a man. Like the person who wrote this post keeps on going "Before we get to know a man, we always keep in the back of our heads that he's dangerous"... wow ridiculous. And sexist.

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure most parents would want their child to do the same thing if a female stranger gives them candy vs. a male stranger giving them candy, so "don't talk to strangers" just means "don't talk to strangers" regardless on weather or not they are male/female.

So if some guy sexually harassed some girl, you should treat it as if someone just sexually harassed someone, it doesn't matter what the genders are.

As for men being stronger than women, although generally statistically and maybe genetically (I don't know), still doesn't mean that all men are going to be stronger than all women, so it's not good to generalize all the men that you see like that.

[chex]

I find it interesting that you read it as being sexist toward men. I read it, and I see a lot of "women can't defend themselves" and "women are all just potential victims" febreeze.

[Clovvach]

I've noticed that too. It's just more stereotyping and generalizations that shouldn't be used.

[Wesley]

I am a man. I am stronger than 94% of the women out there. Someone slaps me on the bottom, male or female, and I will be offended. It is a violation of personal space. It is a social show of dominance. It is rude. For me, the only exception is if a few of us are all at a party, and we all know each other fairly well, and someone slaps an bottom just for fun and laughs. We are all friends. We understand there is no threat there. Other than that? No. At a bar? No. At a club? No. Not your girlfriend, not a close friend, don't do it.

Now, on the other side of this discussion.... A girl gets her bottom slapped, she does not have to assume rape and go crazy-8 bonkers. She can give a stern look and perhaps tell the guy to smurf off. Most guys who are stupid enough to slap the bottom of a stranger will back off when confronted.

I guess for me the bottom (heh) line is: Guys, don't be asshats and go around slapping asses. Girls, don't get all crazy and scream rape and freak out and hide in your room for a week because the world is full of people who are out to get you.

[Clovvach]

Either way my point is that just as long as there are female tickle fight offenders, you should just keep it to "beware of tickle fight offenders" instead of "beware of men"

[chex]

I am a man. I am stronger than 94% of the women out there. Someone slaps me on the bottom, male or female, and I will be offended. It is a violation of personal space. It is a social show of dominance. It is rude. For me, the only exception is if a few of us are all at a party, and we all know each other fairly well, and someone slaps an bottom just for fun and laughs. We are all friends. We understand there is no threat there. Other than that? No. At a bar? No. At a club? No. Not your girlfriend, not a close friend, don't do it.

Now, on the other side of this discussion.... A girl gets her bottom slapped, she does not have to assume rape and go crazy-8 bonkers. She can give a stern look and perhaps tell the guy to smurf off. Most guys who are stupid enough to slap the bottom of a stranger will back off when confronted.

I guess for me the bottom (heh) line is: Guys, don't be asshats and go around slapping asses. Girls, don't get all crazy and scream rape and freak out and hide in your room for a week because the world is full of people who are out to get you.

What I was trying to say, but much clearer!

A few years ago, Mr. chex and I had some close friends who we went to the Vatican with. There was same-tickle fight bottom slapping and cross-spousal bottom slapping. In the Vatican. I sacrilege.

[LaLou]

I know it's in general, and that's what's bothering me the fact that you and her are generalizing men like that.

I was actually trying to say the opposite, that most men are NOT tickle fight-offenders. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough or if my post was somehow confusing.

Like I agree that rape and harassment is a bad thing, but the only reason to say "be careful of men, they might be rapists," instead of "be careful of suspicious strangers, they might be rapists," is because of "general statistics", wich is basically generalization and shouldn't be used to judge a man just for being a man. Like the person who wrote this post keeps on going "Before we get to know a man, we always keep in the back of our heads that he's dangerous"... wow ridiculous. And sexist.

This is her personal opinion, but not mine, although she seems to speak for all women (which she shouldn't). I don't think all men are dangerous, just some. Like not all women are helpless and not all muslims are terrorists. Most are NOT, but the few that are, unfortunatly mess up for the others.

So if some guy sexually harassed some girl, you should treat it as if someone just sexually harassed someone, it doesn't matter what the genders are.

Agree.

As for men being stronger than women, although generally statistically and maybe genetically (I don't know), still doesn't mean that all men are going to be stronger than all women, so it's not good to generalize all the men that you see like that.

Maybe the words "In General" mean something different for you than they do for me, or maybe it's because of the language.
But it's a given fact that most men are stronger than most women. That to me means "In general".

[Clovvach]

Most are NOT, but the few that are, unfortunatly mess up for the others.

Yah this is my point she goes and acts like all men are harmful/ want to do something harmful, wich is not cool since, as you said, most are not.

[LaLou]

Most are NOT, but the few that are, unfortunatly mess up for the others.

Yah this is my point she goes and acts like all men are harmful/ want to do something harmful, wich is not cool since, as you said, most are not.

That is the way SHE was raised.
Not me though. I like men.

[Mouse]

When someone has been hurt, it's very easy for them to generalize and believe that all members of a certain group are capable of the same things as a small handful. It's not right, it's not logical; it's the result of pain and pain creates illogical thought patterns.
This is true twofold when the injuring party is someone who is close to and trusted by the victim... (the (il)logic being, "if my close friend x is capable of this, then every man must be.")

Think of it like this; if you rescue and adopt dog that has been abused by a man in the past who always wore a hat - the dog is going to be scared of anyone (of either gender) in a hat. Over time, the dog will grow less fearful of those wearing hats once he/she has been introduced to non-threatening hat-wearers in repeated calm, controlled, non-threatening ways.

[Dowster]

I think with something like this it depends more on who's doing the slapping and what their relationship is to you. If someone I was close to and got along well with - male or female, were to slap me on the bottom I would likely not have any issue with it, especially if they were just screwing around. On the other hand if it was someone I barely knew, I probably would, and if it was someone who'd been bugging me for a while, and I had already made it clear that I wanted them to leave me the hell alone, then it might well go into freak out territory. Which could have been the case with this particular guy and girl

It works the same both ways too, I know which people I would get away with slapping on the bottom, and with which people it would be totally crossing a line. Again it has nothing to do with gender, but the indiviual person, what type of humor they engage in and appreciate, and how my relationship is with them.

I think the original poster that you quoted is saying that women are given a very sexist view of men by their Fathers, and Brothers etc, and not that he neccessarily agrees with it. But only that he understands why they may be more likey to overeact than their male counterparts. So maybe not so much of an balloon knot, but either way it should not be down to gender at all, and should never be any more acceptable for one to do to the other. It should only be about knowing your friends, and if you are not close enough with someone to be sure how they would react to something like that, just don't do it.

[Clovvach]

given a very sexist view of men by their Fathers, and Brothers etc, and not that he neccessarily agrees with it.

OK well if this is the case, I am only ranting on the sexism itself rather than who believes what.

The reason why I find this so infuriating is because girls can get aways with stuff guys can't, and that girls shouldn't.

Like when a man rapes a woman, everyone is sad "this is terrible :c" etc.

however when a woman rapes a man it doesn't seem to be taken very seriously by the public, or at least in the cases I've seen. People are all "and he's complaining?!" Rare or not, it's still rape, having tickle fight with someone you don't want to is not fun. Even if it's a girl.

[Dowster]

That's quite true, it can be the same with domestic violence, there's plenty of cases where guys have been in and out of hospital after being stabbed, beaten, hit over the head with stuff etc, by their wives or girlfriends, and it goes on for years because they lie about it. Not only because they may be scared, or because they love the person and think they may change (both of which easily apply when it's the other way around) but also because no one will take them seriously, or they'll get laughed at if they try to talk to their friends.

Well maybe not plenty of cases, but enough to fill regular slots on daytime TV shows..

There are some fundamental differences that usually apply to men and women -(there's always exceptions) and I wouldn't really like to live in a completely androgynous world where men and women were identical in every way apart from anatomically. But when it comes to behavior and what's acceptable or unacceptable, I don't think that gender should make allowances for one person or persecute another.

[Clovvach]

Yah, and this is my point, men and women should be treated with equal rights, etc. !

Also, even though it would be not fun living in a world where there were no behavior differences in men and women, it would be just as bad living in a world where the line between a man and a woman's behavior is too fine. (EX: "Men always do this, and Women always do this")